Katrina 2005

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Re: Katrina 2005

Postby Nicole Marie » Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:07 am

I heard the Aqarium moved the dolphins to a near by hotel pool before the hurricane and the rest of the animals went to a warehouse. But I have heard nothing since the flooding started, I hope they made it through the flooding.

I also heard the local animal shelters and Humane Society were able to move all their animals out and are now in shelters in TX. But the shelters are pleading with people to adopt these animals because they expect a huge influx of more homeless animals needing homes.
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Re: Katrina 2005

Postby Trumpetmaster » Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:20 am

I heard the same report about the dolphins.
I hope they and all animals are OK.
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Re: Katrina 2005

Postby Shapley » Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:39 am

Quod scripsi, scripsi.
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Re: Katrina 2005

Postby mmichaelson » Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:57 am

We rec'd 60 animals here in BCS from Louisiana. They're having half price adoptions for a while here. The only problem is, this isn't a NOKILL shelter. :(
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Re: Katrina 2005

Postby Nicole Marie » Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:03 am

I found this on the Aquarium:

http://news.mongabay.com/2005/0830-new_orleans_aquarium.html

"swimming pool, where three dolphins from a local beachfront aquarium — destroyed by Katrina — were brought for safe keeping. They've since been carted off to Florida." http://www.oxfordpress.com/news/content/shared/news/nation/stories/09/01KATRINA_SURVIVORS.html
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Re: Katrina 2005

Postby piqaboo » Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:10 am

Everything I've heard/read suggests that NOLA's mayor is a disaster in a disaster.

He ordered an evac pre-storm, but did nothing to make it possible for those without cars to leave (no extra trains, busses, etc).
Now he's hand wringing, weeping & wailing, but accomplishing nothing.
Whats this "cant use landing areas because of armed thugs" crud? Do not our National Guard have weapons? Big hairy nasty ones?

I agree with signs seen post Andrew and post Katrina - "looters will be shot".
One of those newspaper pictures was captioned "locals removing goods from a store" as if they were helping the owner. Feh!

The governor doesnt sound much more effective.
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Re: Katrina 2005

Postby Shapley » Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:06 am

Piq,

I agree. Where is Rudy Guiliani when you need him?

V/R
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Re: Katrina 2005

Postby OperaTenor » Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:12 am

Here is the latest I could find on what's going on:

New Orleans evacuation slows as shooting, chaos erupt

New Orleans evacuation suspended as shots fired

Exodus From New Orleans Continues Amid Chaos

I hope these are helpful. I tried to cull the most informative and up-to-date stories from what I could find.

Piq and I were discussing what should've happened prior to the hurricane strike, and she expressed to me her misgivings about Mayor Nagin as she posted above. My response was, "now, wait a minute, he may not have had the authority to do any of those things you think he should have done" (at the time, getting the airlines off their butts and flying people out was included in the discussion). After having thought about it some more, while he may not have had the authority(or the governors or other representatives), he could have asked or demanded of those who do(GWB, for instance), to step in and implement measures to help get people out of harm's way. Something on the order of, "(Mr. President/Governor of neighboring state/whoever), we need to get our people out, and we need you to (persuade the airlines/bus lines/trains to mobilize to evacuate people) or (open up "X" facilities to receive evacuees)." Also, requesting Guard troops before the storm hit I think is a reasonable request. I don't think this is 20/20 hindsight, it's just common sense, and reasonable to expect a leader to have that amount of foresight and organization. I tried the "To Kill A Mockingbird" approach, put myself in his shoes, and believe I would have thought some of that stuff out in pretty short order(at least general requests for assistance from all levels) as soon as I realized it was a remote possibility that that terrible of a storm was going to strike my area of responsibility.

It may be that he did some or all of that, but the evidence suggests he didn't. Or the governors of LA and MS, for that matter.

In other words, honey, you're right.
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Re: Katrina 2005

Postby Trumpetmaster » Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:32 am

I'm not trying to diminish what these people are going through, but gee.... shoot at the people trying to help you....
Rudy Guiliani would never stand for this crap.

They should helicopter in fence with barbed wire, set it up asap and put these idiots in there under armed guard.. Evacuate everyone, then haul those sorry a$$es off to prison in Baton Rouge.

They are Animals.... No... Animals have higher standards and would never do that.....

They need to incorporate Martial Law...
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Re: Katrina 2005

Postby OperaTenor » Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:37 am

[hijack]

Y.R.H.,

Love your new signature!

:D

[/hijack]
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Re: Katrina 2005

Postby Trumpetmaster » Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:43 am

Thanks for pointing that out OT - ROFL
Now off this hijack :)

<small>[ 09-01-2005, 12:43 PM: Message edited by: TrumpetMaster ]</small>
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Re: Katrina 2005

Postby Nicole Marie » Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:46 am

Thanks! I have it on a bumper sticker on my car too! OK now back to the important stuff.
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Re: Katrina 2005

Postby Shapley » Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:04 pm

OT,

I've thought about the same things. Apparently, Haley Barbour activited guard units and had them on standby at locations as close as practical and safe to the Gulf Coast as could be determined. Apparently they did not have enough on standby, but they did not expect Katrina to grow as strong as she did in the last days before making landfall.

The Governor is responsible for calling out the National Guard. Only that part of the Guard activated into military service is under the command of the President. The President also cannot send troops into a State without a request from the Governor, except in case of open rebellion.

There are several military bases in the Gulf Coast Region, Pensacola NAS, Pascagoula Naval Shipyard, Corpus Christi NAS, Keestler Air Force Base, etc., but most of these suffered damage during Katrina as well. Thus, military equipment and personnel that could have been available for assistance is damaged or employed on site.

the lack of planning is sad, but the lack of response following the hurricane is particularly emberassing. We know from the outset that communications were a problem, so why hasn't the National Guard units set up mobile command centers in or near population centers immediately? Why are they continuing to moan and b***h about the enormity of the problems, instead of attacking the problems. It makes me angry.

As I said in an earlier post, it is hard to compare the situations in Mississippi and Louisiana. In Mississippi, the crisis is passed and the reconstruction has now to begin. In Louisiana, the crisis has opened the door to additional crises, which are still ongoing. I do think, however, that much of the situation there now is due to a lack of proper and timely response to the initial situation.

V/R
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Re: Katrina 2005

Postby Trumpetmaster » Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:15 pm

"I do think, however, that much of the situation there now is due to a lack of proper and timely response to the initial situation. "


Bulleye.....
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Re: Katrina 2005

Postby OperaTenor » Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:27 pm

One little, teenie comment I would make however.

I don't know if it's fair to compare 9/11 and Giuliani to this situation. I agree, Rudy was a hero that day, and did all the right things, and the city rallied in the best of American hopes and tradition, but what happened there, while horrific and devastating, didn't occur on as large or prevasive a scale as what has happened to NO. NYC didn't lose all basic utilities, simultaneously, over the enitre city, right? Businesses and homes weren't abandoned and left unguarded as in this situation, right?

That being said, doesn't it seem like we're witnessing panic on the part of the local goverment leaders?

And that apparently being the case, who is going to step and show some cajone........uh, I mean, leadership?

<small>[ 09-01-2005, 01:36 PM: Message edited by: OperaTenor ]</small>
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Re: Katrina 2005

Postby piqaboo » Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:35 pm

Toilets in the Superdome are backed up.
HELLO!!!! How predictable was that???
When the SD was designated "refuge of last resort", and people told to bring 5 days worth of supplies, why werent portapotties shipped in by the hundreds?

I realize there isnt a lot of time to prep for a hurricane,but NOLA had all weekend. Evacuation was happening on Sat and Sunday for a storm predicted to hit early Monday. As posted before, one lady interviewed couldnt get a train out - this was in my paper SUNDAY morning, which means she'd been trying at least 24 hours before the storm was due (my paper is delivered at 6 PST,so 9 EST, which means it was in press probably by 6 EST or earlier).

I understand looting, tho I dont approve of it. I do not understand the point of shooting at an evac helicopter! What a bunch of numbnuts!

And of course, most of the folks there are just suffering peacibly, hoping to find a way to better quarters soon. Its just a small percentage of idiots and jerks that make it even harder on everyone else.

Resources - its not a matter of who controls what, its that the mayor apparently did nothing to help his city be evacuated. He could have requested extra bus service from Greyhound, he could have sent the city busses out with evacuees, he could have begged Amtrack to run an extra train or two over the past weekend. He could have asked local construction companies to deliver their portapotties (if empty or more than half so) to the superdome, etc etc.
A lot can be done in 24 hours, if the need is urgent.

Ok, Im being incredibly repetitive out of a sense of frustration and helplessness. I cant easily accept that so many folks who survived til Tuesday might die or be dead now because of lack of competent leadership.
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Re: Katrina 2005

Postby Trumpetmaster » Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:39 pm

OT,
That is true. But I believe Shapley was trying to say if Rudy were down there, even with all that has happened, the post action plan would be different and we wouldn't see the chaos that is going on now.

Again, not to diminish what occured but do we see looting stories in Mississippi and Alabama?

Why are people doing this? I think it's because the city is flooded out and these people realize even if they get caught, where are the police going to put them?

Sad situation...

If the authorities have screwed up and there's no food or water to be found, well , I can't blame people for trying to obtain the essential needs, but to trash stores, take non essential items, or even trying to replenish items they have lost...
well.... does the word Stealing come to mind.

We should all help our brothers and sisters the best way we can... I don't understand what justifies shooting and stealing in NOLA.

I'm sure there are alot of honest people in NOLA and will probably get blasted for this comment, but, again, the people of Mississippi and Alabama are doing their best to move forward, Cleanup, and take care of their citizens...

OT - I do sense panic setting in on the officials in NOLA.
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Re: Katrina 2005

Postby Trumpetmaster » Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:46 pm

Piq,
What a novel Idea. portapotties :)

Again, poor planning. portapotties should have been trucked in. They setup outbound traffic for people to get out of town. How come they could not set one lane inbound for a caravan of trucks to bring items like this in for the shelters? Poor Planning.

Did they think power at the SD would remain. The first thing we heard on the news was the backup generators could not sustain AC if power went out.

If the mayor of NOLA did not order everyone out of town and setup shelters of "Last Resort" for people to go to... Well... I've said enough....

One more thing...
If the authorities did screw up in NOLA, (and I truly believe they did) then they should shut up, get a plan in place to straighten out the mess.

I have to go to a meeting now.. Actually a conference call.. If it gets boring, I'm jumping back here. :)
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Re: Katrina 2005

Postby OperaTenor » Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:47 pm

Hi TM,

Good point. You'd think poepl would be all over those casinos in Biloxi, looking for.......?

Remember the senseless looting that occurred during the LA(Los Angeles) riots? The police were pretty helpless to combat that, and the Guard had to be called in before it quieted down. Deja vu all over again.......
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Re: Katrina 2005

Postby mmichaelson » Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:47 pm

Apparently people are shooting at evac helicopters b/c they want the choppers to come and get their own families. That is what some are screaming as they shoot. . .
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