Katrina 2005

The place to post questions and share helpful technical information or with other Beethoven.com community members about listening to Beethoven Radio.

Moderator: Nicole Marie

Re: Katrina 2005

Postby BigJon@Work » Fri Sep 09, 2005 1:15 pm

Originally posted by piqaboo:
Oh please.

I check out the Humane Society. The site gets all excited and spews venom because they are effective fund raisers and are not an animal shelter. No duh. The Humane Society predates animal shelters. It exists to cause legislation to be passed for the well-being of animals, which it does*. It makes no attempt to hide this fact or mislead, as the site claims. *In England this year, it got fox-hunting banned.

The site is going to have to do better than that.
Let's see, self dealing, supporting terrorist groups, extremely high administrative costs. And finally and most egregious, trading on the real animal shelter’s hard work and good graces to gain funds. What’s not to like?

So what, the activistcash site is pro farmer and hunter. Does that discredit the research? Tell me what you thought of the other organizations listed. Do any that you support also support terrorism?

<small>[ 09-09-2005, 02:25 PM: Message edited by: BigJon@Work ]</small>
"I am a 12 foot lizard." GCR Jan 31, 2006
BigJon@Work
2nd Chair
 
Posts: 2252
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 12:01 am
Location: work. Duh!

Re: Katrina 2005

Postby BigJon@Work » Fri Sep 09, 2005 1:25 pm

Originally posted by OperaTenor:
Hey *igJon,

How come there's no information for the NRA on that site? Seems a bit right-leaning, kind of "fair and balanced" in the Faux News sense of the word.
Again, I never said the site didn't have an agenda; it is pro business, pro scientific progress, pro farming and pro hunting. But they also have some pretty damning evidence.

Also, I think the NRA is pretty damn up-front on their agenda in everything they do. “In your face” might be a good description. I'm not a supporter of the NRA. I do think they could be a useful tool in maintaining 2nd amendment rights and public safety. Were I emperor for a day, I would make a federal contract with the NRA to run mandatory training schools for everyone who wants to bear arms. That way yahoos with guns might have a lesser change of catching me in their crossfire.
"I am a 12 foot lizard." GCR Jan 31, 2006
BigJon@Work
2nd Chair
 
Posts: 2252
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 12:01 am
Location: work. Duh!

Re: Katrina 2005

Postby Serenity » Fri Sep 09, 2005 3:13 pm

KABLAM!!!


Halt, who goes there?
Serenity
1st Chair
 
Posts: 4666
Joined: Sun May 18, 2003 12:01 am

Re: Katrina 2005

Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Fri Sep 09, 2005 3:21 pm

No, no. No kablam first. Identify target first! Didn't you pay attention in Range Safety class? Sheesh. I'm revoking your sentry card until you review the rules! ;)
>^..^<
Selma in Sandy Eggo
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6273
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2002 1:01 am
Location: San Diego

Re: Katrina 2005

Postby Serenity » Fri Sep 09, 2005 3:25 pm

Rules, shmules! I got my license in Texas!
Serenity
1st Chair
 
Posts: 4666
Joined: Sun May 18, 2003 12:01 am

Re: Katrina 2005

Postby Shapley » Fri Sep 09, 2005 3:27 pm

Actually, the NRA runs firearms safety programs around the country, but their not mandatory. Many States require completion of an NRA safety course before issuance of hunting license and/or a handgun permit.

In addition, the NRA's Eddie Eagle firearms safety program for kids consistently recieve high marks from educators and firearms safety advocates nationwide.

V/R
Shapley
Quod scripsi, scripsi.
Shapley
Patron
 
Posts: 15196
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Cape Girardeau, MO

Re: Katrina 2005

Postby Serenity » Fri Sep 09, 2005 3:37 pm

Is the Eddie Eagle analogous to Joe Camel, or to the Phillip Morris stop smoking campaign?

<small>[ 09-09-2005, 04:39 PM: Message edited by: Serenity ]</small>
Serenity
1st Chair
 
Posts: 4666
Joined: Sun May 18, 2003 12:01 am

Re: Katrina 2005

Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Fri Sep 09, 2005 3:50 pm

Eddie Eagle is probably a bit more respectable than Joe Camel. Basic gun safety is something that should be addressed if there are any firearms in the neighborhood. For instance, when I was ten or so, there was a large (probably about 4 feet but it looked a mile long then) diamondback in the back yard. I turned it into snakeburger with a 20-gauge, and did not shoot my little brother dead while I was doing so. This sort of thing is the kind of stuff kids need to be trained on. Shoot the snake, not the brother.

Guns are not magic, and they are not monsters. They are tools. If you have them, you must teach the entire household the correct way to store, handle, and use them.
>^..^<
Selma in Sandy Eggo
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6273
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2002 1:01 am
Location: San Diego

Re: Katrina 2005

Postby Serenity » Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:05 pm

Gosh, Selma, I guess you're right. Although, I can't picture you with a shotgun hidden up your knitted sweater sleeve!
Serenity
1st Chair
 
Posts: 4666
Joined: Sun May 18, 2003 12:01 am

Re: Katrina 2005

Postby piqaboo » Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:43 pm

Originally posted by BigJon@Work:
Let's see, self dealing, supporting terrorist groups, extremely high administrative costs. And finally and most egregious, trading on the real animal shelter’s hard work and good graces to gain funds. What’s not to like?

So what, the activistcash site is pro farmer and hunter. Does that discredit the research? Tell me what you thought of the other organizations listed. Do any that you support also support terrorism?
1) organizations are self dealing. Its life. Name one that isnt._____?

2) ?supporting terrorist groups? So they and now you allege. Tell me more? Like, an example, perhaps?

3) "trading off".... nope. They came first, they get the name. The shelters chose to use same name. Nothing in the lit they send me pretends to support local animal rescue or shelters. They claim to lobby for legislation for the better treatment of animals. Just because someone thinks everything called an egg comes from a chicken does not make the snake a liar!

Still not convinced.
Altoid - curiously strong.
piqaboo
1st Chair
 
Posts: 7135
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:01 am
Location: Paradise (So. Cal.)

Re: Katrina 2005

Postby DavidS » Sat Sep 10, 2005 1:12 pm

Originally posted by Selma in Sandy Eggo:

Guns are not magic, and they are not monsters. They are tools. If you have them, you must teach the entire household the correct way to store, handle, and use them.
Same applies to motor cars.

<small>[ 09-10-2005, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: DavidS ]</small>
Tel grain, tel pain.
DavidS
2nd Chair
 
Posts: 1360
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 12:01 am
Location: Originally London, now near Tel-Aviv

Re: Katrina 2005

Postby zlosin » Mon Sep 12, 2005 2:12 pm

“It’s a damn poor mind that can think of only one way to spell a word!”
Andrew Jackson
zlosin
3rd Chair
 
Posts: 714
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 1:01 am
Location: Grand Blanc, Michigan

Re: Katrina 2005

Postby OperaTenor » Mon Sep 12, 2005 2:21 pm

But Brownie was doin' a heckuva job?!!

At least that's what President PetroProfit said.....
"To help mend the world is true religion."
- William Penn

http://www.one.org
OperaTenor
Patron
 
Posts: 10457
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Paradise with Piq & Altoid, southern California

Re: Katrina 2005

Postby BigJon@Work » Mon Sep 12, 2005 4:49 pm

Originally posted by piqaboo:
1) organizations are self dealing. Its life. Name one that isnt._____?
Just about any non-profit that wants to be taken seriously as a charitable organization. That would exclude most non-profits that you've ever seen with a "Hollywood" endorsement. Read this quote, bolding mine.
Until 1995 HSUS also controlled the Humane Society of Canada (HSC), which HSUS president Paul Irwin had founded four years earlier. But Irwin, who claimed to live in Canada when he set up HSC, turned out to be ineligible to run a Canadian charity (He actually lived in Maryland). Irwin’s Canadian passport was ultimately revoked and he was replaced as HSC’s executive director.

The new leader later hauled HSUS into court to answer charges that Irwin had transferred over $1 million to HSUS from the Canadian group. HSUS claimed it was to pay for HSC’s fundraising, but didn’t provide the group with the required documentation to back up the expenses. In January 1997 a Canadian judge ordered HSUS to return the money, writing: “I cannot imagine a more glaring conflict of interest or a more egregious breach of fiduciary duty. It demonstrates an overweening arrogance of a type seldom seen.”
Originally posted by piqaboo:
2) ?supporting terrorist groups? So they and now you allege. Tell me more? Like, an example, perhaps?
The group completed its animal-rights transformation during the 1990s, changing its personnel in the process. HSUS assimilated dozens of staffers from PETA and other animal-rights groups, even employing John “J.P.” Goodwin, a former Animal Liberation Front member and spokesman with a lengthy arrest record and a history of promoting arson to accomplish animal liberation.
Let me lay it out for you, 'cause I'm pissed! My friend has a nursery business that is good but not great. He wanted to start breeding monkeys for labs on part of his land to even out the cash flow. These effing terrorist bastards came in the middle of the night and trashed his nursery and spray-painted death threats on his building, just because he proposed this business. Terrorism, straight up! PETA fully supports these nuts and is therefore a terrorism supporter just as a Hamas is. You bet I'm pissed. When I see a celebrity like Pam Anderson supporting PETA, I want to tear the top of her empty skull off and scream down in it. "YOU SUPPORT TERRORISTS YOU HYPOCRITICAL JERK!"

Let me give you a little thought experiment. You're looking for colleges for Altoid. You find a nice school but you discover that a former right-hand man to Yassar Arafat is on the board. Wouldn't that give you pause as to what the hell this college's values are? When I find a former ALF member working for a charitable organization I sure as hell ain't gonna send my money there.

Originally posted by piqaboo:
3) "trading off".... nope. They came first, they get the name. The shelters chose to use same name. Nothing in the lit they send me pretends to support local animal rescue or shelters. They claim to lobby for legislation for the better treatment of animals. Just because someone thinks everything called an egg comes from a chicken does not make the snake a liar!

Still not convinced.
HSUS is big, rich, and powerful, a “humane society” in name only. And while most local animal shelters are under-funded and unsung, HSUS has accumulated $113 million in assets and built a recognizable brand by capitalizing on the confusion its very name provokes. This misdirection results in an irony of which most animal lovers are unaware: HSUS raises enough money to finance animal shelters in every single state, with money to spare, yet it doesn’t operate a single one anywhere.

Instead, HSUS spends millions on programs that seek to economically cripple meat and dairy producers; eliminate the use of animals in biomedical research labs; phase out pet breeding, zoos, and circus animal acts; and demonize hunters as crazed lunatics. HSUS spends $2 million each year on travel expenses alone, just keeping its multi-national agenda going.
Bolding mine. This is both sad and sick. That money could be going to the saving of animal lives, real humane-ity, instead it goes to the lobbying of specious and wrongheaded laws that are anti-progress and unwanted by the general population.

The HSUS has worked itself out of a job from its origins. Animals are better protected now by law and organization than at any time in US history. They should disband and use their bank acount to set up a trust fund for shelters across the land so that no other animal has to be needlessly destroyed. That's humane.

Full story from which I used the quotes that I'm ranting about:
http://activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm/oid/136
And the PETA-Terrorism Story:
http://activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm/oid/21

<small>[ 09-12-2005, 05:53 PM: Message edited by: BigJon@Work ]</small>
"I am a 12 foot lizard." GCR Jan 31, 2006
BigJon@Work
2nd Chair
 
Posts: 2252
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 12:01 am
Location: work. Duh!

Re: Katrina 2005

Postby piqaboo » Mon Sep 12, 2005 7:24 pm

BigJon,
I agree, vandalism is wrong. & PETA tends to kooks who commit vandalism. Nasty.

I dont agree that "humane society" is synonymous with "animal shelter". Nor do I agree that laws to protect animals are less use than animal shelters.
AND, the British Humane Society got the name first - before the animal shelters adopted it.
I work in an industry that makes extensive use of animal testing. Trust me,those laws are good for the animals. Know any shelters that take mice?

PS -shipment going out manana. WAs a problem with packaging.
Altoid - curiously strong.
piqaboo
1st Chair
 
Posts: 7135
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:01 am
Location: Paradise (So. Cal.)

Re: Katrina 2005

Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:50 pm

On the news tonight, I saw crews of volunteers removing stranded animals from the flood areas. They were wearing windbreakers with great big HSUS initials on the back. So, there are at least three people in the country who both wear HSUS windbreakers and row around a flooded street removing stranded animals from flooded residential areas.

I think that most shelters are operated by local SPCA and Humane Societies; the ones here are organized at the county level. Fundraising is local, the shelters are local, the animals are local, it seems to work out.
>^..^<
Selma in Sandy Eggo
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6273
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2002 1:01 am
Location: San Diego

Re: Katrina 2005

Postby piqaboo » Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:49 am

so back to the original point - that website, from which I selected one charity, at random - has some work to do.
It made wild inflamatory statements, some of which are completely irrelevant and some of which are completely unsupported by their site.

It happens that my randomly selected charity is a hot-button for he-who-provided-the-link. So be it. That doesnt make the site better done.

Just for grins and giggles, I'll go check a few non-randomly selected charities now.
Altoid - curiously strong.
piqaboo
1st Chair
 
Posts: 7135
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:01 am
Location: Paradise (So. Cal.)

Re: Katrina 2005

Postby OperaTenor » Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:48 pm

If he really means it, it'll be the first time in his life:

Bush: 'I take responsibility'

Does this mean he'll fire himself for incompetence?

:hopeful:
"To help mend the world is true religion."
- William Penn

http://www.one.org
OperaTenor
Patron
 
Posts: 10457
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Paradise with Piq & Altoid, southern California

Re: Katrina 2005

Postby BigJon@Work » Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:46 pm

Originally posted by piqaboo:
BigJon,
I agree, vandalism is wrong. & PETA tends to kooks who commit vandalism. Nasty.
But that association doesn't tar the HSUS?
"I am a 12 foot lizard." GCR Jan 31, 2006
BigJon@Work
2nd Chair
 
Posts: 2252
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 12:01 am
Location: work. Duh!

Re: Katrina 2005

Postby piqaboo » Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:00 pm

Originally posted by BigJon@Work:
Originally posted by piqaboo:
[b] BigJon,
I agree, vandalism is wrong. & PETA tends to kooks who commit vandalism. Nasty.
But that association doesn't tar the HSUS? [/b]
Invalid conclusion from my posts.
Altoid - curiously strong.
piqaboo
1st Chair
 
Posts: 7135
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:01 am
Location: Paradise (So. Cal.)

PreviousNext

Return to Helping Hand

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

cron