Moussaoui Sentence

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Moussaoui Sentence

Postby Haggis@wk » Thu May 04, 2006 12:09 pm

Moussaoui

Moussaoui walked into the courtroom flashing a victory sign. "God save Osama bin Laden - you will never get him,'" he said.

"You have branded me as a terrorist or a criminal or whatever,'' he said. "Look at yourselves. I fight for my belief.''

Judge Brinkema limited Moussaoui to a brief statement, then responded:
Brinkema firmly refused to be interrupted by the defendant as she disputed his claim that his life sentence meant America had lost and he had won.

"Mr. Moussaoui, when this proceeding is over, everyone else in this room will leave to see the sun ... hear the birds ... and they can associate with whomever they want,'' she said.

She went on: "You will spend the rest of your life in a supermax prison. It's absolutely clear who won.''

And she said it was proper he will be kept away from outsiders, unable to speak publicly again.

"Mr. Moussaoui, you came here to be a martyr in a great big bang of glory,'' she said, "but to paraphrase the poet T.S. Eliot, instead you will die with a whimper.''

At that point, Moussaoui tried again to interrupt her, but she raised her voice and spoke over him. "You will never get a chance to speak again and that's an appropriate ending.''


Any thoughts? Comments?
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Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Thu May 04, 2006 12:32 pm

I'm comfortable with the sentence. It seems appropriate to me (although I resent the expense of maintaining this puppy in confinement). He clearly does not want to be part of our community, has had entirely too much time already to express his views, and warehousing him permanently seems proper.
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Postby piqaboo » Thu May 04, 2006 12:42 pm

I'm so glad the judge got it. If he were sentenced to death, he would have become a martyr for the cause. Plus it costs more to execute someone than to lock em up f'rever. Now he will fade away in humiliation and obscurity.

Interesting, many of the survivors/families who want him sentenced to death seem to realize he'd be just a scapegoat.
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Postby jamiebk » Thu May 04, 2006 1:31 pm

I am not against the death penalty...in fact, for it in lot of cases...in this case, I am quite happy with the decision for him to rot in jail...I mean can you imagine how the other inmates will treat him? This guy will be raped, beaten, sodomized and generally be cut off from every social advantage and right he has ever known...he has a long time to live and a long time to suffer living.
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Postby Shapley » Thu May 04, 2006 2:03 pm

jamiebk wrote:can you imagine how the other inmates will treat him? This guy will be raped, beaten, sodomized and generally be cut off from every social advantage and right he has ever known...he has a long time to live and a long time to suffer living.


He'll be in a Super Max prison, so he won't be raped, beaten, or sodomized. He'll basically be in solitary confinement, unless they transfer him to a lesser-security prison later in life. Prisoners in Super-Max facilities spend twenty-three hours a day in their cells, by themselves, and spend an hour a day in the 'yard', usually a concrete chamber about 20' square, with an open ceiling so they can get the only fresh air they get during their stay. They can earn library time, television priviledges, etc., but mostly, they rot.

A suitable sentence for someone who wanted death.

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Postby Shapley » Thu May 04, 2006 2:05 pm

jamiebk wrote:can you imagine how the other inmates will treat him? This guy will be raped, beaten, sodomized and generally be cut off from every social advantage and right he has ever known...he has a long time to live and a long time to suffer living.


He'll be in a Super Max prison, so he won't be raped, beaten, or sodomized. He'll basically be in solitary confinement, unless they transfer him to a lesser-security prison later in life. Prisoners in Super-Max facilities spend twenty-three hours a day in their cells, by themselves, and spend an hour a day in the 'yard', usually a concrete chamber about 20' square, with an open ceiling so they can get the only fresh air they get during their stay. They can earn library time, television priviledges, etc., but mostly, they rot.

A suitable sentence for someone who wanted death.

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Postby jamiebk » Thu May 04, 2006 2:10 pm

Agree....appropriate sentence. SuperMax sounds like the ticket. Cut off from the world and alone for the rest of his life. Absolutely worse than death...
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Postby DavidS » Thu May 04, 2006 3:48 pm

jamiebk wrote:Agree....appropriate sentence. SuperMax sounds like the ticket. Cut off from the world and alone for the rest of his life. Absolutely worse than death...

Yes, that must be the nearest thing to purgatory, hell, Inferno, or Gehinnom that man can impose on man, and of course he deserves it.
But will it deter others from imitating his behaviour?
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Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Thu May 04, 2006 4:22 pm

It's probably not a deterrent; neither would the death penalty have been. This guy, and the others like him, are not deterrable. He's been banished from society as unfit for others to associate with, he's been prevented from doing any further harm, and that's the best we can do.

Spending the rest of his life in his own company is probably the worst thing that could happen to such a nut case. He deserves it. It's enough.
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Postby barfle » Thu May 04, 2006 4:56 pm

All that trial stuff took place a block from my office. Really. I can see the front of the courthouse a block down the street.

So it might seem that I would have some interest in his fate. But really, all I feel for him is disdain. I can think of no worse punishment for him than to have nobody give a RRE about him, his religion, or his statements. He should simply disappear from the minds of Americans, and, for the next thirty or forty years, have him realize that he just doesn't make any damned difference, and never really did.
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Postby OperaTenor » Thu May 04, 2006 5:38 pm

I'm glad he didn't become a martyr for the wackos.

I think it's a good thing he won't be exposed to a general prison population. I don't think they'd bother with playing around sodomizing him or beating him up. My money says they'd kill him right away, and then we'd be back to making a martyr out of him.

I don't want that. I want him to rot away slowly.
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Postby GreatCarouser » Thu May 04, 2006 5:51 pm

Unfortunately this man is a martyr for his cause's propaganda machine regardless of his fate just as the many 'prisoners of conscience' are seen as martyrs by AI and others for example. I'm confident that the press in the Muslim world, at least parts of the press, are already trumpeting his 'victory'. It is the nature of the political beast. I'm also confident the death penalty would not deter any committed 'Osamaite' from his 'duties'. We deal here with a different perception of reality from what we are accustomed. These people force us to look at the world through a very different glass than we are used to.

His 'speech' is one reason why I feel the Flight 93 folks deserve a memorial that's bigger than a plaque. A memorial with a visitor's center to keep the story alive. 50 years from now I want people to know and understand why those folks chose the course they chose. I don't want that story buried like the stories of the Armenian genocide by the Turks. The same genocide Hitler's henchmen pointed to when confronted with the argument that the world would 'rebel' at such an act. I feel such a memorial would also serve as a 'stick' in Osama's eye.

If you think the above argument is 'ridiculous' remember that WWII ended 61 years ago yet there are many who deny their was any Holocaust despite the tremendous 'official' evidence. What happens when the witnesses to it die?
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Postby RC » Thu May 04, 2006 6:18 pm

I'm with whoever said he should disapear from the minds of americans. There is no way of knowing what makes someone like that tick or if there is any reality in that head. There is no right thing to do but what has been decided.

I think it was a good choice.
A man is the sum of his actions, of what he has done, of what he can do, Nothing else.
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Postby dai bread » Thu May 04, 2006 8:00 pm

I was worried he would recive the death penalty and thus be made a martyr. Now tha the;'s been sentenced to life imprisonment, I am relieved. I didn't know about Supermax prisons. The sentence is perfect.

Maybe he will become a "prisoner of conscience" for some. It is either that or martyrdom. You can't have everything.
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Postby shostakovich » Thu May 04, 2006 9:04 pm

Can someone tell me what he was actually charged with? He wanted to commit a crime, but didn't. He was the prosecution's best witness. To put him back on the street would be unconscionable. The sentence is just, but was it legal? God forbid an appeal, and there are lots of lawyers that would be willing to try it. Have we really heard the last of whazizname?
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Baffling

Postby Catmando » Thu May 04, 2006 9:36 pm

It continues to baffle me.....the continual hatred.....the vicious never ending cycle......Americans towards Muslims.......Muslims towards Americans.

If hatred ever solved a single issue or problem in the world, boy could we work wonders!
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Postby analog » Thu May 04, 2006 10:52 pm

shostakovich wrote:Can someone tell me what he was actually charged with?
Shos


The indictment was six counts, for conspiracy to :

commit acts of terrorism transcending international boundaries,
commit aircraft piracy,
destroy aircraft,
use weapons of mass destruction,
murder US employees,
and
destroy property.

It's here: http://notablecases.vaed.uscourts.gov/1 ... 4329/0.pdf


My opinion of the sentence? He lives in la-la-land anyway, so locking him away further enables his innate escapism. You can't rehabilitate the guy so you have to protect society from him. Myself I'd do it with a firing squad for sake of economy, but throwing away the key should be as effective.

The idea of prison as punishment doesn't wash - that's vengeance.
But we could always hope he draws Hannibal Lechter for cellmate.
Cogito ergo doleo.
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Postby DavidS » Fri May 05, 2006 1:36 am

rayzor17 - I think you'll find that the percentage of Americans feeling blind, fanatical hatred towards Muslims is far lower than the proportion of the populations of various undemocratic countries with such attitudes towards America and the West. Those having the misfortune to live in such places should have our sympathy and pity for being continually mind-poisoned (I will not call it "brainwashed") by their "leaders".
One of the world's major problems will be finding ways to undo this dirty work.

The sane consensus on this BB is that the perpetrator of the crimes mentioned must be isolated from society until the day he dies, for humanity's safety.
Naturally no-one would advocate giving him 5-star hotel-type conditions while in prison.
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Re: Baffling

Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Fri May 05, 2006 1:43 am

rayzor17 wrote:It continues to baffle me.....the continual hatred.....the vicious never ending cycle......Americans towards Muslims.......Muslims towards Americans.

That perception is altogether wrong. Muslims, on the whole, are just fine with me. My American neighbors who happen to worship in a mosque are still my neighbors, and are as American as any of the rest of us. I'll admit to disgust and revulsion for any breed of fanatic who will commit random murder and terrorism. Furthermore, those of my neighbors who happen to be Muslim seem to have no problem getting along with me, or the rest of us. At last count, my condo building contains people of four major religions, with various subgroups of all four.

There are some Muslim jihadis who hate Americans. It's not a cycle. We don't know why they hate us and I doubt that they know why they hate us. I personally suspect that they hate us because they think they should be the lords of the universe because Allah loves them best and it galls them that we, without any particular reference to any specific face of God, manage to flourish while we ignore them.

rayzor17 wrote:If hatred ever solved a single issue or problem in the world, boy could we work wonders!

Sarcasm, I understand. You're right in thinking that hatred does no good to anybody. The hater invariably suffers more than the object of his hate.
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Postby piqaboo » Fri May 05, 2006 9:53 am

I share the concern about the charges. Its like getting crime lords for tax evasion because they didnt file on their illicit income. The guy was charged with not telling us that he was trying to commit a crime against us. Oy vey! and No Duh!
Somehow, I feel that falls under the right not to self-incriminate. Regardless, I want this guy to get away from the limelight he so enjoys. Quiet internment, gradual fading away, no importance.
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