Wow! Our very own Maginot Line!

[dai bread]

I don't actually think we should change the citizenship law to exclude some of the children born here from citizenship. It's a constitutional provision, it's clear and simple, and I think it's best left alone. There are both disadvantages and advantages to changing or not changing the law: that being the case I'd prefer to stay with the simple rule.

As matters now stand, a child born here to nonresident aliens is a citizen of the US but does not give the parents any right to stay here to raise that child.

In our case, the child, being a citizen, can bring its parents in later under family re-unification provisions. Along with his sisters & his cousins & his aunts (or so it seems to us).

Also, NZ citizenship gives automatic right of entry to Australia, with the right to work. There are some provisos to that, notably in the matter of criminal convictions, but the general case is that a NZ passport-holder can work & live in Australia without question.

[Serenity]

Most of the (hispanic) immigrants come from poor, less-educated regions of their countries; the parts that are heavily dependent on government services or religious/charity support. The ones that lean toward democratic or socialist representation.

Bush is trying to follow middle ground to eventually let more "potential" democrats into the country, and when they earn their citizenship they will vote democratic. Isn't that ironic?

[DavidS]

Also, NZ citizenship gives automatic right of entry to Australia, with the right to work. There are some provisos to that, notably in the matter of criminal convictions, but the general case is that a NZ passport-holder can work & live in Australia without question.

Aren't they required to learn the language first?

[dai bread]

Also, NZ citizenship gives automatic right of entry to Australia, with the right to work. There are some provisos to that, notably in the matter of criminal convictions, but the general case is that a NZ passport-holder can work & live in Australia without question.

Aren't they required to learn the language first?

You mean they should learn Strine?http://www4.tpg.com.au/users/bev2000/strine2.htm

As the tourist said in London: "Cudgel lemon odour the white eyed pie canner?"*















*"Could you let met know the way to Hyde Park Corner?"

[DavidS]

Dai - please, please don't take this the wrong way - but can you apprise me of how to distinguish between Aus and NZ accents?
(I admit that I don't know how to distinguish between Lancashire and Yorkshire; Devonshire and Gloucestershire; Alabama and Texas accents).

[dai bread]

Sometimes you simply can't. Generally, the thing to look for is the Australian long i. Six = seeks. Aussies say that in NZ, six = sucks, but we don't agree. The standard comment is that an Aussie says "feesh & cheeps" and a NZer says "fush & chups".

For instance, a writer of graffiti doctored another writer's tag in Sydney. The original said "Aussie sucks." The Aussie tagger added "NZ nil". (The reference is to scores in sport).

The broad Aussie twang of myth & legend is not common; at least not in the parts of Sydney where I've been. The broadest accents were on people demonstrating wildlife at a couple of zoos we visited. I'm sure the people were hired for their accent as much as anything.

Normal shop assistants and the like are pretty well indistinguishable from NZers unless you listen carefully. Nobody commented on where we were from until we produced our NZ-issued Visa cards.

I have been surprised when working with people here to find out they were from Australia.

There is a range of accents in NZ anyway, as there is in Oz. Some of us get quite nasal & harsh, and there is an unfortunate trend to finish sentences with a rising inflection as if asking a question?

There are differences in vocabulary too. For instance, a polystyrene bin to keep food cold is a chillybin in NZ & an esky in Oz. A beer can is a tinny in Oz, a can here. Barbie, both here & in Oz, is not so much a doll as a place where you cook food outdoors.

For a NZer, going to Oz is like going next door.

[DavidS]

Ta!
Which confirms my understanding that both Oz & NZ dialects are descended from 18th/19th century Cockney.
Yes an Aussie mate of mine once told me about "six-sucks".
And I have heard "tinny" too - also occurring in Aussie soaps, in which I have also heard a rising inflection at the end of sentences (e.g. Carlie in Home & Away).
Of course I must mention that great guy Rolf Harris (Animal Hospital).
Nevil Shute referred to a "Queensland drawl" - know owt about that?

[dai bread]

Sorry DavidS, I haven't been to Queensland and don't know anyone from there, so I can't comment. I wouldn't be surprised, though, as Q'land is hot and most things warmblooded slow down in the heat.

Brisbane is not as close to Sydney as you might think from looking at a map. It's about 3 days by road, unless you really push yourself. We tried to tell this to a young man who went there, but he knew better, and spent most of his week's holiday sitting in a bus.

[DavidS]

Brisbane is not as close to Sydney as you might think from looking at a map. It's about 3 days by road, unless you really push yourself. We tried to tell this to a young man who went there, but he knew better, and spent most of his week's holiday sitting in a bus.

Hmm - by train he could have done it in about 12 hours.
One thing I found intriguing was the completion of a cross-continental rail link from Adelaide to Darwin via Alice Springs ("the Ghan" - nearly 3,000 km; 2 days and nights on the train), announced a couple of years ago.
Brings to mind past pioneering projects like the US and Canadian Pacific, and Trans-Siberian Railways.

[dai bread]

The Ghan is a very popular train. We tried to get seats on it when we went to Sydney last, but it was booked solid for several months ahead. It's also quite an expensive trip.

I looked up David Crystal's "Cambridge Encyclopedia of the English Language", thinking I would write a paragraph or two on Australian & NZ English, but Crystal has several pages on the subject so I won't bother. He does support the idea of Cockney input, but I think he understates the influence of the Irish, especially in Oz.

[Shapley]

Fascinating, isn't it? I'm looking at the changes in this thread. Some would call it 'hijacking', but I call it 'threadvolution'. We started out talking about a chainlink fence to be installed on the US/Mexico border and less than two pages later we're halfway round the world talking about railways and English accents down under. Absolutely amazing!

V/R
Shapley

BTW, didn't the Ghan replace the old rail lines that used to require passengers to change trains at least once in order to cross the continent, due to the different guages of track found in different parts of the Australian continent? I used to enjoy watching a program on the Travel Channel about an Australian bricklayer that walked off the job and set out to see the world. Albie Baker I think was his name. He set out across Australia with a camel, and hitched a ride on a train, I'm not sure if it was the Ghan. He was quite a colourful character.

Back when I was in Australia, I bought a wall map of the continent which showed the different guages of railways in service there. It was a much more detailed map of Australia than can be bought in the States. I still have it tucked away somewhere.