Musical Wish List

[Catmando]

(and Daniel Barenboim's haed ona silver platter, as a side dish).

What's wrong with Daniel Barenboim?

[bignaf]

(and Daniel Barenboim's haed ona silver platter, as a side dish).

What's wrong with Daniel Barenboim?

I don't lik ehis conducting, and his personality annoys me. as well as his voicing an opinion, loudly and repeateadly with a sense of superioirty, about things he has no clue about, i.e. politics.

[Catmando]

I don't lik ehis conducting, and his personality annoys me. as well as his voicing an opinion, loudly and repeateadly with a sense of superioirty, about things he has no clue about, i.e. politics.

I don't have any of his work as a conductor. And I don't know about his opinions/sense of superiority, views on politics etc. I'm not *ig into politics anyways (blame that on me being Canadian......or G.W. Bush )

I do have Barenboim's work for Beethoven's complete piano sonatas, and I do enjoy them.

[DavidS]

My current wishlist (which is long!):

Bruckner - Complete symphonies

Dvorak - Complete symphonies

Brahms - Complete orchestral works

Beethoven - Choral Fantasy, Mass in C, Missa Solemnis, Christ on the Mount of Olives, Piano Trios, Diabelli Variations, Cello Sonatas.

DeBussy - La Mer, Claire de lune, Prelude d'un apres-midi d'un faune

Chopin - Piano works

Stravinksy - The Rite of Spring

Saint-Saens - Danse Macabre

Jerry Goldsmith - The Omen (1976 soundtrack)

Michael Oldfield - Tubular Bells



Oy vey! A long list.......

Any recommendations on any of these, especially the non-Beethoven works, are welcome.

Ray

My list is even longer - all the above +

Mozart - every single thing the man wrote
Smetana - ditto
Borodin - ditto
Tschaikovsky - ditto
Rachmaninov - ditto
Khachaturian - ditto

and many more besides!

[DavidS]

(and Daniel Barenboim's haed ona silver platter, as a side dish).

What's wrong with Daniel Barenboim?

I don't lik ehis conducting, and his personality annoys me. as well as his voicing an opinion, loudly and repeateadly with a sense of superioirty, about things he has no clue about, i.e. politics.

He's not the first artist to get *unnecessarily* involved in such stuff - remember Beethoven and Verdi (whom we now forgive). Richard Wagner, Ezra Pound, and Yehudi Menuhin?
What gets my goat is clerics getting into that minefield...

[bignaf]

I don't lik ehis conducting, and his personality annoys me. as well as his voicing an opinion, loudly and repeateadly with a sense of superioirty, about things he has no clue about, i.e. politics.

I don't have any of his work as a conductor. And I don't know about his opinions/sense of superiority, views on politics etc. I'm not *ig into politics anyways (blame that on me being Canadian......or G.W. Bush )

I do have Barenboim's work for Beethoven's complete piano sonatas, and I do enjoy them.

he was a good pianist, but he isn't anymore. he hardly plays solo piano stuff anymore.

[bignaf]

(and Daniel Barenboim's haed ona silver platter, as a side dish).

What's wrong with Daniel Barenboim?

I don't lik ehis conducting, and his personality annoys me. as well as his voicing an opinion, loudly and repeateadly with a sense of superioirty, about things he has no clue about, i.e. politics.

He's not the first artist to get *unnecessarily* involved in such stuff - remember Beethoven and Verdi (whom we now forgive). Richard Wagner, Ezra Pound, and Yehudi Menuhin?
What gets my goat is clerics getting into that minefield...

What bothers me is when an artist who has no special insight into an issue, and isn't particularly briliant aside from his/her artistic talent (which is great but not applicable) uses his/her fame (earned through art) to proclaim their political beliefs. the latter on your list also annoy me a lot.
Beethoven isn't relibly recorded using his position to rally support for one or other. in fact, he was more in support of a general sense of morality than a specific person (OK, he liked Napoleon for a while, but learned his lesson). Verdi definitely didn't suffer from a sense of superiority in that regard.

[DavidS]

I quite agree with you, bignaf.
It's not a matter of a superiority complex - but just that it's best for everyone to have the sense to keep to his own field.
I do appreciate Beethoven all the more for calling his the 3rd symphony by the non-committual name "Eroica" (if it was he that that stuck the name to it), and nowadays we can understand and approve the Italian nationalistic message Verdi was delivering in some of his operas.

[Selma in Sandy Eggo]

Absolutely right. It's just that, once you get to feeling like you're really at the top of your game and you're pretty smart, a person starts thinking that all their opinions are expert opinions.

There are several things that I do exceptionally well. This gives me the smarts to tell, say, Bignaf what music is good? Or tell OT how the piano should be rebuilt? Or barfle how the tubafors should be mounted?

I should stick to things where my expert opinion has actual weight and substance, where I really know something. This also applies to pop stars, religious leaders, and lemming herders.

[DavidS]

he was a good pianist, but he isn't anymore. he hardly plays solo piano stuff anymore.

And you know sump'n?
I find it hard to forget the way he treated that wonderful lady Jacqueline du Pré in her hour of need.

[shostakovich]

Hi David. How did he treat her? Inquiring minds want to know.

[bignaf]

I think he continued his tours while she was dying...

[bignaf]

Absolutely right. It's just that, once you get to feeling like you're really at the top of your game and you're pretty smart, a person starts thinking that all their opinions are expert opinions.

There are several things that I do exceptionally well. This gives me the smarts to tell, say, Bignaf what music is good? Or tell OT how the piano should be rebuilt? Or barfle how the tubafors should be mounted?

I should stick to things where my expert opinion has actual weight and substance, where I really know something. This also applies to pop stars, religious leaders, and lemming herders.

In my opinion you took it too far (or at least what you seem to convey). people should still have opinions, but they should realize that their views, outside their expertise, are just part of the chaotic mass from which consensus is formed. whithin the chaotic mass there will be many small-sample-size peaks and valles, but overall, the consensus emerges. this consensus should be massively influenced by experts; however, when people who are not experts achieve an external power to shape consensus, the system is jeopardized. in other words, the universe is about to be destroyed by the incosistencies generated by Barenboim. Barenboim is destroying the universe. in other words, Barenboim is the devil. ummm... how did I get here???

so basically, you're allowed to tell me what music is good, but I am even more allowed to temper that observation with my own knowledge.

I must also strongly disagree with your assesment of lemming herders. Lemming herders are actually the only people who are experts in everything. In fact, everyone would benefit from going on a pilgrimage to gain some insights from the Lemming herders.

and here is my prophecy for the end of days: The Master Lemming Herder and Barenboim will clash in a great battle, which the Master Lemming Herdfer will win with a well aimed lump of lemming dung.

peace.

[Shapley]

Bignaf,

I agree. It's not the celebrity's opinions that are annoying, it's the fact that some people, and the media that portray them, give their opinions greater weight than anyone elses. There is nothing that says that George Clooney's knowledge on politics is any more valid than anyone elses, but he gets airplay because of his celebrity status. It's fine that he has an opinion, but so what. So does everyone else.

V/R
Shapley

[DavidS]

I think he continued his tours while she was dying...

I won't mind being proven wrong, but my impression was that it was more than tours.

[bignaf]

I think he continued his tours while she was dying...

I won't mind being proven wrong, but my impression was that it was more than tours.

oh right, forgot that. yeah.

[BigJon@Work]

I keep thinking of George Soros when you talk about someone who's opinions outside his field of expertise aren't worthy of the attention they get.

Take this to the Debate Team if you want to reply, please. I don't want to junk up this forum.

[bignaf]

OK, back to topic. sorry for hijcak. I opened a thread in Dabate Team.

[Selma in Sandy Eggo]

BOT, I think we agreed that Barenboim is less desirable than, say, Karajan. Yes?

Just got the soundtrack to Henry V - bought it for the Non Nobis Domine number. I need to get some Webber musicals; I like to try to sing along. So far, I only have Phantom of the Opera. I'm looking for Cats next.

[Catmando]

FYI - 25% off classical box sets at B&N.

Good price on Herbert Von Karajan Beethoven Symphonies.

http://music.barnesandnoble.com/boxsets_cds2.asp?PID=1580&z=y&cds2Pid=11609&linkid=684280