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Artagel wrote: How wrong was it for Israel to expell all the Palestinians? It doesn't seem right, but I'm not well versed in their actions from '47 to '67... .
There are people who feel they have some sort of divine revelation as to what is right and what is wrong, and they tend to preach these revelations often enough that they get people to believe them. This morality is, in my view, artificial, with no benefit to either the individual or the society.
Artagel wrote:Well, that's a western definition of honorable, Shapley.
Artagel wrote: Barfle. Be careful there, someone might call you an anarchist! Both societal and religious constructs end up being morals. It's not just "Don't cheat on your wife" or "don't marry your gay brother." The religious morals include things so basic as "Don't steal things from your neighbor" and "Don't kill your neighbor" and "You have got to work (contribute to society) to have others contribute to your well being" (i.e. Work to get money so you can buy things you can't make yourself) There are many valuable morals/rules. There may be some that annoy you, but I dont' relish the downfall of society at all, which is what would happen if you threw out *all* common values...
Shapley wrote: I would disagree here. It is worth noting that such people exist in nearly all cultures, indicating to me that either 1 ) They do have divine revelations regarding right or wrong, ot 2 ) their preachings are a benefit to either the individual or to society.
Artagel wrote: Yah, drifting! But I think the insight that there is 'Face' honor and Rule following honor is what's dragging us adrift.
BigJon, which meaning of honor did you have in mind? I'm thinking Face honor...
Or that they've convinced the people that not believing them will have eternal detrimental consequences.
Shapley wrote:I believe the concept of 'honour' to be universal. I believe that comes from our common ancestry. I will agree that a society that does not respect honour, that allows the dishonourable to dwell, unchastised, in their midst, is a society that will fall into dishonour as a society. Are we, as a society, there, yet? I cannot say.
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