Now I Lay me down to sleep

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Now I Lay me down to sleep

Postby jamiebk » Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:05 am

Wow...shocking news about Ken Lay dying of a heart attack at his vacation home in Colorado. Just shows you what the stress of guilt can do to your body. Will anyone mourn this man's passing? Certainly not those bilked out of billions of dollars and retirement pensions.
Jamie

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Postby Shapley » Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:49 am

I will speak no ill of the dead. At one time he was a respected business man. He was a Navy veteran and a family man. May he rest in peace.
Quod scripsi, scripsi.
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Postby jamiebk » Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:09 am

It is factual to state that he was a convicted criminal awaiting sentencing. If that is speaking "ill of the dead", then so be it". It is simply the truth. It is sad that the man's life will be remembered other than as the respected business/family man.
Jamie

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Postby BigJon@Work » Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:20 am

Another round of Ding, Dong the Witch is Dead?

I would read articles on Enron and I liked the business concepts they started, being a fan of free markets and all. But the execution stories always sounded sketchy, like they were creating markets out of thin air. Turns out in many cases, they were. I'm still eager to read some definitive business analysis of the company's records.
http://www.enron.com/corp/
"I am a 12 foot lizard." GCR Jan 31, 2006
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Postby Shapley » Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:21 am

I didn't mean to sound negative about your post. I was not accusing you of speaking ill about him, I was merely trying to add a note about the positive side of Mr. Lay's character. He was convicted, and many will know nothing other of the man that that.

Many of us fall from our pedestal at one time or another. The taller your pedestal, the greater the fall. Mr. Lay had built himself a very tall pedestal. There will be those who remember him when he was atop it, others will remember him only later.

V/R
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Postby barfle » Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:57 am

I must admit that I had mixed reactions when I read the story. He's not THAT much older than I am, so such events always give me pause.

But, if you believe in American style of justice, then he got away with his crimes, never having served time for them. Yeah, it's a helluva way to get out of going to prison, but as I see it, he paid no penalty for the damage he did to his employees.
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Postby shostakovich » Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:48 pm

My first thought when I read the headline was that his death has been faked. He will live long and free and rich under another identity. The convenient timing, just before sentencing, is too much for my suspicious mind. I have read no details, other than "heart attack", so I'm keeping an open mind along with my suspicions.
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Postby Shapley » Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:53 pm

Shos,

I think Amelia Earhart has an extra room at her boarding house, right next door to Elvis... :D

V/R
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Postby jamiebk » Wed Jul 05, 2006 4:04 pm

shostakovich wrote:The convenient timing, just before sentencing, is too much for my suspicious mind. I have read no details, other than "heart attack", so I'm keeping an open mind along with my suspicions.
Shos


Shos, believe it or not, I was on a jury that convicted a man of rape. Of course we were all interested in the sentencing, which was out of our control. We all watched as this man spent months in jail awaiting sentencing. One week before his sentencing hearing, he died in jail of ...you guessed it...a heart attack. The guards/police were cleared of any suspicion of negligence in his death.

Point is....this stuff happens.
Jamie

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Postby Shapley » Wed Jul 05, 2006 4:17 pm

I would suspect that Mr. Lay found the strain to be too much for him. Whether he believed himself guilty or not, the prospect of jail time, the shame on himself and his family, as well as the difficulties of finding himself abandoned by many of his 'friends' in business and politics may well have taken their toll on him. It is impossible to know how he was affected by all of this. Perhaps being the at the helm when Enron hit the rocks weakened him, and being found responsible for it was the final straw.

We'll never know.
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Postby jamiebk » Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:49 pm

Shapley wrote:I would suspect that Mr. Lay found the strain to be too much for him. Whether he believed himself guilty or not, the prospect of jail time, the shame on himself and his family, as well as the difficulties of finding himself abandoned by many of his 'friends' in business and politics may well have taken their toll on him. It is impossible to know how he was affected by all of this. Perhaps being the at the helm when Enron hit the rocks weakened him, and being found responsible for it was the final straw.

We'll never know.


Or maybe he simply neglected to have an angiogram and EKG/stress test. The angio would have spotted any cardiac arterial irregularities. Food for thought for all of us aging youngsters
Jamie

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Postby jamiebk » Thu Jul 06, 2006 2:38 pm

It appears that death may indeed be the ultimate release from sin:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13738993/

From MSNBC webpage:
It's actually going to be a very interesting issue because typically, the death of a defendant stops all proceedings,” said attorney Kent Schaffer.
In fact, under the law, since he was never sentenced, Lay was never, technically, convicted. But the jury verdict remains.
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Postby OperaTenor » Thu Jul 06, 2006 2:48 pm

The strain of what?! The worst he had to look forward to was an end-of-term presidential pardon from his pal in the White House.
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Postby Shapley » Thu Jul 06, 2006 3:00 pm

Well, that is interesting. It would be very difficult to proceed given Mr. Lay's condition. I suppose it is possible to sue his estate, but that would probably require the filing of new lawsuit.

This would only relate to suits specifically naming Mr. Lay as a defendant. If the suit is against Enron, then the death of Mr. Lay will have no bearing on the status of the proceedings. Mr. Lay founded Enron, but he was not Enron.
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Postby shostakovich » Thu Jul 06, 2006 7:35 pm

Shapley wrote:Shos,

I think Amelia Earhart has an extra room at her boarding house, right next door to Elvis... :D

V/R
Shapley


Amelia and Elvis got no advantage from faking death. It definitely hurt their careers. :wink:
Shos
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Postby shostakovich » Thu Jul 06, 2006 7:39 pm

jamiebk wrote:
shostakovich wrote:The convenient timing, just before sentencing, is too much for my suspicious mind. I have read no details, other than "heart attack", so I'm keeping an open mind along with my suspicions.
Shos


Shos, believe it or not, I was on a jury that convicted a man of rape. Of course we were all interested in the sentencing, which was out of our control. We all watched as this man spent months in jail awaiting sentencing. One week before his sentencing hearing, he died in jail of ...you guessed it...a heart attack. The guards/police were cleared of any suspicion of negligence in his death.

Point is....this stuff happens.


When "stuff happens" to ordinary folk there's not much to be suspicious about (after the guards/police were cleared).
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Postby shostakovich » Thu Jul 06, 2006 7:49 pm

In Enron's home of Houston, where he was once revered, Lay was considered a potential candidate for mayor. Now, reviled by many, talk radio callers have been burning up the Houston airwaves. One recent caller insisted the reports of Lay’s death were false, and that he had fled the country with money accumulated during his Enron career.

But authorities in Aspen, Colo., where he was staying at a family vacation home confirmed his death. A family pastor says Lay's "heart simply gave out."

Hi Jamie. The above is from the article you referenced. It seems I'm not alone in suspicions. But, would a family pastor lie?? In Texas?? Kennedy was shot 43 years ago this Nov. We still don't know by whom or how many. I do believe he's dead, though, Shap.
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