Top 50 Composers...or are they?

[Catmando]

Top 50 Composers: Per Phil Goulding - Author of:
Classical Music: The 50 Greatest Composers and Their 1,000 Greatest Works

1 Johann Sebastian Bach
2 Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
3 Ludwig van Beethoven
4 Richard Wagner
5 Franz Joseph Haydn
6 Johannes Brahms
7 Franz Schubert
8 Robert Schumann
9 George Frideric Handel
10 Peter Ilyitch Tchaikovsky

11 Felix Mendelssohn
12 Antonin Dvorak
13 Franz Liszt
14 Frederic Chopin
15 Igor Stravinsky
16 Giuseppe Verdi
17 Gustav Mahler
18 Sergei Prokofiev
19 Dmitri Shostakovich
20 Richard Strauss

21 Hector Berlioz
22 Claude Debussy
23 Giacomo Puccini
24 Giovanni da Palestrina
25 Anton Bruckner
26 Georg Telemann
27 Camille Saint-Saens
28 Jean Sibelius
29 Maurice Ravel
30 Gioacchino Rossini

31 Edvard Grieg
32 Christoph Gluck
33 Paul Hindemith
34 Claudio Monteverdi
35 Bela Bartok
36 Cesar Franck
37 Antonio Vivaldi
38 Georges Bizet
39 Modest Mussorgsky
40 Jean-Philippe Rameau

41 Gabriel Faure
42 Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov
43 Gaetano Donizetti
44 Ralph Vaughan Williams
45 Bedrich Smetana
46 Johann Strauss
47 Karl Maria Von Weber
48 Leos Janacek
49 Francois Couperin
50 Alexander Borodin

[Shapley]

Mahler's not in the top ten?

Vivaldi is way down at number 37?

Saint-Saens isn't in the top 20?

Nope, nope, nope. Go back and start again....

[navneeth]

Wow! I've listened to the works, at least in bits and pieces, of almost every composer in that list!

[audiogirl]

"Ahh, Bach."*

(for MASH watchers only.)

[Shapley]

I'm partial to the fugue.

[Hexameron]

Yea, that list is definitely flawed. Rameau before Weber? Hindemith ahead of Mussorgsky? Donizetti is also a bizarre choice there; I would have said Bellini or Meyerbeer are "greater."

[Shapley]

Well, there you have your homework assignment - compile your own 'top 50' list.

I guess #1 on my list would be Bachtovart.

V/R
Shapley

[Hexameron]

I guess #1 on my list would be Bachtovart.

Nay, it's Beetozach!

[Shapley]

Motovach?

[shostakovich]

I'm surprised there's but one English composer (not counting the transplanted German), and NO Amurricans. Throw out Telemann and Faure. Insert Elgar, Copland. Who does this Phil Goulding think he is????????????
GRRRRRRR

[bignaf]

the lack of Americans is blasphemous.
and was the book written in the 40's? the most modern composer is Hindemith! (I get to see his blackboard 3 times a week, btw).

[Hexameron]

To be fair, this isn't Goulding's own opinionated ranking system. He's not some snobby scholar pedantically pointing out why Handel is greater than Tchaikovsky; he researches many sources to figure out what the big league musicologists/musicians/historians/contemporaries etc have to say about each composer. He then compiles all of the information and tries to come up with a rudimentary list of the top 50 greatest composers.

In some ways he did a good job; I think his writing style and the format is very user-friendly and helpful for people who don't know a lot about classical music. Many of his pages have little bordered sections with anecdotes or quotes (like Beethoven's famous quote about Handel) or the fact that Brahms fell asleep to Liszt's Sonata in B minor (never forgave him for that ).

On the other hand, I just don't think he had the right scope for taking in all of the opinions and facts from his research. The list doesn't seem realistic. Like it was mentioned before, Wagner is in no way a valid 4th contender. Sure his influence may be the largest after Bach and Beethoven, but that's not enough to make him great. I also don't think Haydn deserves such a lofty status. I think many would agree that Handel and Brahms were much superior. I also think Saint-Saens and Berlioz belong higher up, right after Liszt and Chopin.

Shos, I'm with you on the Telemann and Faure - just take them out to make room for Rachmaninoff at least.

I guess the bottom line is, the list is flawed but the writings in the book are fascinating and well-constructed.

[bignaf]

Telemann

[Hexameron]

I might not have barfed on the poor fellow or thrown a computer at him, but I gladly stick both thumbs down. I mean... I think an obscure classical composer like Hummel is far more original, talented and proficient than Mr. Telemann.

[bignaf]

precisely.

[GreatCarouser]

Yea, that list is definitely flawed... Donizetti is also a bizarre choice there; I would have said Bellini or Meyerbeer are "greater."

Bellini,...Meyerbeer? Donizetti probably made the list ahead of Bellini because of his greater influence on the structure and forms of the opera as well as for his non-operatic compositions, in forms as diverse as symphonies, chamber works, piano works etc. Meyerbeer was certainly a great influence on French grand opera but suffers (unfairly) from Wagner's disdain. Unfortunately, one-trick ponies will often suffer in a list that covers such a wide base. It's very tough to be a Chopin and get on this list without a wide range of forms, or attacking the most complex form (symphony). Instead of replacing Donizetti, maybe Meyerbeer should replace Wagner. There's more justice in that.

[OperaTenor]

Not only is Jack not listed in the #1 slot, but they've got him below Joe!

Sorry, this list is not valid.

[Catmando]

Hex & Shos,

This book does look interesting (not because I agree with all of the names and order of their excellence of course). I may just end up getting it.

One odd peculiarity (assuming you have the same cover on the book as the one I've seen on Amazon). The front cover has a portrait of Beethoven, Mozart and a man in the middle (whom one would presume is J.S. Bach). But, upon closer inspection, it looks like the "English Bach", JC Bach, JS' youngest son. Go figure!

[Hexameron]

Catmando... I just looked at the cover and you're right, it is JC Bach. How embarrassing that must be...

Well despite that, it is a good book and anyone can get something out of it.

[1st_oboe]

.... and where, exactly, does the great 16th century composer Anon fit in to all of this. Surely this one deserves a spot in the top 10.