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Postby jamiebk » Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:39 pm

barfle wrote:If memory serves, I first heard it during the cold war. I lived in very conservative Orange County, CA at the time, and it was "Better dead than red." I heard it turned around by Vietnam war protesters later.


I think you nailed it Barfle...thanks
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Postby analog » Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:45 pm

barfle wrote:
If memory serves, I first heard it during the cold war. I lived in very conservative Orange County, CA at the time, and it was "Better dead than red." I heard it turned around by Vietnam war protesters later.


I second Barfle's recollection.
In mid fifties grade school we received anti-Communist indoctrination in our classes. I distinctly remember group readings of pamphlets with propaganda so shallow even us fourth graders saw through it. I wonder today if that was the seeds of baby-boomer cynicism, but I dont really know if that program was nationwide or just a Miami phenomenon...

Anyhow, during the McCarthy era many of us schoolchildren were taught the slogan "Better Dead than Red", referring to Communst Russia.

Speaking of those times, I just saw Dr Strangelove on TCM again - General Turgescent's attitude isn't atypical.
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Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:00 am

analog wrote:propaganda so shallow even us fourth graders saw through it. I wonder today if that was the seeds of baby-boomer cynicism,

That was one thing. And the air raid drills, where we snuggled up to a wall to save ourselves from the nuclear blast. And the film "Reefer Madness", a gem of propaganda and misinformation. And then there was the "information" film that a feminine hygiene corporation produced for the 6th grade (girls only, must be accompanied by mothers) that was wrong on so many subjects that I was told to shush, which sent my-mother-the-nurse off into a ten minute exposition of reality the like of which the PTA never...

Never mind.
>^..^<
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Postby audiogirl » Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:10 pm

Oh, come on, Selma, tell! You can surely put it in g-rated language. :)
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Not a headline but a quote

Postby Marye » Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:07 pm

Quote from Henry Kissinger,

"If you mean, by 'military victory,' an Iraqi government that can be established and whose writ runs across the whole country, that gets the civil war under control and sectarian violence under control in a time period that the political processes of the democracies will support, I don't believe that is possible," Mr. Kissinger told BBC News
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The Christian Science Monitor

Postby Marye » Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:57 pm

Rising Price of the War on Terror
Tuesday 21 November 2006

With the Iraq war and clashes in Afghanistan grinding on, the cost to the US budget is $500 billion and still mounting.
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Postby piqaboo » Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:54 pm

Do you know how much jewelry a gal could buy for that?
I wonder how many CEO's get bought for that?
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Postby OperaTenor » Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:58 pm

And we keep borrowing from the Chinese to finance it.

Voodoo economics, indeed.
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Postby GreatCarouser » Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:11 pm

Life imitates art....So that's where the FRS went!

Here's hoping they work better than expected....
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Postby jamiebk » Thu Nov 23, 2006 1:57 pm

I'd like to know why we aren't buying these by the bushel-full:

Israel Develops Laser to Destroy Roadside Bombs
Wednesday, November 8, 2006 / 17 Cheshvan 5767

The Israeli Armaments Development Authority (Rafael) has developed a laser system to diffuse destroy roadside bombs, which have killed hundreds of US and Israeli soldiers in Iraq and Lebanon.

Rafael and American defense contractor General Dynamics have produced and deployed the system, which is called Thor. It uses the concentrated energy of a high-powered laser to clear unexploded bombs and improvised explosive devices.

"The directed energy from the laser may also be used to ignite combustible materials, as a standoff cutting torch, and for other combat purposes," General Dynamics said in a statement about the project ahead of US moves to purchase and deploy the system in its army.

Thor combines the Israeli-produced high-energy laser with the Browning M2 12.7-mm machine gun, made by General Dynamics, to destroy explosive devices. The weapon is used with a remote operator control station or mounted on a vehicle or bomb-squad robot.

The Thor system includes sensors that work either in day or nighttime conditions to detect the hidden explosive charge. The developers report that the Thor system has already been deployed in combat operations. “Thor has demonstrated combat effectiveness in operational engagements bringing an additional precision fire gun platform to the fight, while at the same time filling a unique tactical mission role,” Rafael announced.

The developers explain that the directed energy from the laser is capable of rapidly clearing unexploded devices by inducing a low-order burning or deflagration reaction in the explosive material from a safe distance.

“The directed energy from the laser may also be used to ignite combustible materials, as a standoff cutting torch, and for other combat purposes,” the developer explains. “The kinetic energy from the 12.7mm bullet fired by the M2 functions as a standoff disrupter, destroying fusing, thick-cased munitions and booby traps, also enabling distancing explosive hazards away from the force route. The M2 machine gun ultimately provides accurate, direct fire upon enemy forces and targets in either an offensive or defensive role.”

The Armament Development Authority is supported by Israel’s Ministry of Defense and designs, develops, manufactures and supplies a wide range of advanced defense systems.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=115121
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Postby analog » Thu Nov 23, 2006 4:00 pm

jamiebk wrote:I'd like to know why we aren't buying these by the bushel-full:



"The directed energy from the laser may also be used to ignite combustible materials, as a standoff cutting torch, and for other combat purposes," General Dynamics said in a statement about the project ahead of US moves to purchase and deploy the system in its army.

Thor combines the Israeli-produced high-energy laser with the Browning M2 12.7-mm machine gun, made by General Dynamics, to destroy explosive devices.



Probably some GI with a metalworking background duck-taped an industrial laser cutting torch to his 50 cal machine gun....

Anyhow it's a great idea - the ray-gun is here at last. Give 'em a year to miniaturize it.

There ought to be a way to similarly ignite the explosives in a suicide vest so they burst into flames rather than detonate. That'd just make my day.
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Postby dai bread » Thu Nov 23, 2006 11:00 pm

I thought microwaves (as in oven) would do it. I read that they've worked on land mines.
We have no money; we must use our brains. -Ernest Rutherford.
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Postby jamiebk » Fri Nov 24, 2006 5:03 pm

analog wrote:
jamiebk wrote:I'd like to know why we aren't buying these by the bushel-full:



"The directed energy from the laser may also be used to ignite combustible materials, as a standoff cutting torch, and for other combat purposes," General Dynamics said in a statement about the project ahead of US moves to purchase and deploy the system in its army.

Thor combines the Israeli-produced high-energy laser with the Browning M2 12.7-mm machine gun, made by General Dynamics, to destroy explosive devices.



Probably some GI with a metalworking background duck-taped an industrial laser cutting torch to his 50 cal machine gun....

Anyhow it's a great idea - the ray-gun is here at last. Give 'em a year to miniaturize it.

There ought to be a way to similarly ignite the explosives in a suicide vest so they burst into flames rather than detonate. That'd just make my day.


From reading other articles on this "anti-weapon" it sounded like it works on suicide bombs as well...explode's 'em before they "walk" into some crowded venue.
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Postby barfle » Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:19 pm

Just setting them aflame would be perfect as far as I'm concerned. A just amount of pain for the perpetrator, and plenty of warning for the intended victims.
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Postby analog » Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:49 am

jamiebk wrote:

From reading other articles on this "anti-weapon" it sounded like it works on suicide bombs as well...explode's 'em before they "walk" into some crowded venue.


.......inducing a low-order burning or deflagration reaction in the explosive material.......


I'm with Barfle. Burn baby burn.

I know dynamite will burn harmlessly if you light it with a match.
I don't know anything about the modern stuff.
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Postby piqaboo » Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:48 pm

My first thought as to why we werent buying them was "because the darn IED's are camoflaged, and if you cant find/see em, you cant burn 'em".
Then I saw this line, which makes me wonder HOW they find the explosives, and how effective THOR is at finding them.
The Thor system includes sensors that work either in day or nighttime conditions to detect the hidden explosive charge


Burning. I tried to quote analog here but something went astray.
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Postby barfle » Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:07 am

analog wrote:I know dynamite will burn harmlessly if you light it with a match.
I don't know anything about the modern stuff.

I don't know how "modern" C-4 is (a "plastic" explosive I was taught about in the Army in 1967), but it will burn if you contact it with a flame. It takes both heat and shock for it to explode. So if you have a piece of it burning in your hand, don't drop it - set it down gently.
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Postby analog » Wed Nov 29, 2006 11:56 am

Barfle wrote: ".. I don't know how "modern" C-4 is (a "plastic" explosive I was taught about in the Army in 1967)..."

Maybe C4 is not so new as I thought...

Do I recall Tom Hanks making a C4 "sticky bomb" in Private Ryan? That line surprised me, I thought C4 was more modern and maybe Spielberg missed a detail. He doesn't miss much.

My experience was less formal.
In Missouri in mid sixties we college kids found we could no longer buy firecrackers. But every hardware store carried dynamite.

Not anymore, though, thank goodness. In these reckless times there'd be worse mischief than we got into.

a. :roll:
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Postby barfle » Wed Nov 29, 2006 1:24 pm

analog wrote:Maybe C4 is not so new as I thought...


According to Wikipedia, it acquired its present formula in the 1960s, although that's not very specific.

The earliest patent reference I can find to "plastic explosive," at least in the title is dated March 28, 1922.
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Postby Marye » Wed Nov 29, 2006 3:01 pm

Headline CNN:
Colin Powell says Iraq in a 'civil war'
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