French Revolution

Everyone loves a healthy debate. Post an idea or comment about a current event or issue. Let others post their ideas also. This area is for those who love to explore other points of view.

Moderator: Nicole Marie

French Revolution

Postby ratsnake » Mon Jan 23, 2006 9:00 am

President Jacque Shirak of France has recently stated that the French army under his authority will never show any vulnerable behaviour towards those who would threat the French secularity and national security, a threat many believe is been directed to the Iranian hard liners pursuing the Uranium enrichment programs of theirs since last week. Is Shirak gone out of his mind because of the public pressure due to the recent Moslem disputes and disturbances? Or may be he has realized that the French vine yards are going to be the very first target for the premier nuclear missile produced in the Iranian very very Moslem traditionally tattooed Bunkers, as soon as they achieve the huge technology of uranium enrichment without being dependent on western powers, rather to speed up the matter cause the whole administrative body of the Iranian government is sitting on the plans of how to conquer the world and frantically how to destroy France first. That sounds very threatening to me, to Monsieur Shirak, must have been far more threatening that he had to pick up his strength and march up the press tribunes and shout at the terrorists and their supporters to watch it of course we ain’t gonna sit back and watch till you guys achieve some nuclear technology, we gonna nuke you down first!! If any of those reasons I respectively pointed to are not the grounds on which Shirak has stated what he stated, then may be biology of human being is the answer and he’s simply getting old and more secular towards the motherland France and tries to project the French legacy of first ever European nation to beak the boundaries of the Islamic Ottoman and imperialise the Arabs some 2 centuries ago. If they did it 200 years ago why can’t they repeat once more? The fact that some other nations which were not in the golden-member only club of Nuclear weapons are catching up with the old members is as yeasty and bitter as Japanese beat Italians in the soccer field nevertheless those new comers are claiming to be Moslems. Hell yeah the stories of the crusades is being narrated chest to chest and heart to heart on both sides of the Jerusalem ever since Saladin took back what the Christians claimed some 100 years before him. To me both ways I hate to live under a government who is acting according to any holy books why the holy books brought the interference of what people wanted to live through with what the lords of other worlds would want it to be, if not getting the creator involved, the priests and Imams who were and still are the true representatives of the spiritual powers-in fact- were the true sons of nuts who brought up all of that we are the chosen ones and you not type of arguments which has got no other settle than war. If the power and the natural selection thrives the stronger ones to survive it also suggests the weaker ones to come into coalition with each other and hence become strong. The middle east is a cradle of unrest and prejudice and the west in another fashion too. If Jacque Shirak perceives danger and enjoys admiration of some other European counterparts tipping in their Deutsch Zeitung and/or British guardians the awareness of the Europe towards rise of tyranny and threat to their totality if Iran possesses Nuclear power just like Israel, India and Pakistan or The Grand china in the region, then he should also take into consideration that Iranians too will feel the same threat on their security to avoid any act of peaceful and cognitive approach if France declares a pre-emptive nuclear war on them or on any nations who might get into trouble with them.
keep it real
ratsnake
5th Chair
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:01 am
Location: Germany

Re: French Revolution

Postby Haggis@wk » Mon Jan 23, 2006 10:00 am

"if France declares a pre-emptive nuclear war on them or on any nations who might get into trouble with them."

That comment is a concatenation of words that I would not have expected to see in my (or even my children's) lifetime
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
Haggis@wk
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6055
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:01 am
Location: Home office

Re: French Revolution

Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Mon Jan 23, 2006 11:57 am

:eek: I guess somebody should.

On the whole, we haven't found the French terribly dependable allies. They tend to fold under pressure. Perhaps the thought of threats to the vineyards is what they needed to stiffen them up a bit.
>^..^<
Selma in Sandy Eggo
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6273
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2002 1:01 am
Location: San Diego

Re: French Revolution

Postby piqaboo » Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:05 pm

Ratsnake,
I'm not sure if you are expressing support for
Mr Chirac or not. But when I think of the French military, I thank them for their help during our revolutionary war, and then I uncontrollably think the following two phrases: Maginot Line and Vichy Gov't.
Altoid - curiously strong.
piqaboo
1st Chair
 
Posts: 7135
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:01 am
Location: Paradise (So. Cal.)

Re: French Revolution

Postby ratsnake » Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:07 pm

thanxxx haggis although im not really sure if i got u're point........
have the same problem with my spanish teacher...
keep it real
ratsnake
5th Chair
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:01 am
Location: Germany

Re: French Revolution

Postby Haggis@wk » Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:19 pm

Ratsnake,
The idea of France being pre-emptive militarily is not an easy concept to grasp
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
Haggis@wk
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6055
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:01 am
Location: Home office

Re: French Revolution

Postby piqaboo » Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:24 pm

Haggis, dude! You're forgetting the Joy of Empire! Old Nappie was very pre-emptive! :D
Altoid - curiously strong.
piqaboo
1st Chair
 
Posts: 7135
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:01 am
Location: Paradise (So. Cal.)

Re: French Revolution

Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:39 pm

Originally posted by piqaboo:
Haggis, dude! You're forgetting the Joy of Empire! Old Nappie was very pre-emptive! :D
Do Corsicans really count as French?
>^..^<
Selma in Sandy Eggo
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6273
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2002 1:01 am
Location: San Diego

Re: French Revolution

Postby ratsnake » Mon Jan 23, 2006 1:07 pm

''dear all readers, due to some confusing errors in my post i reposted it as quickly as possible to avoid any lack of clarity and definition, thanks to Haggis and his tip``

The French Revolution
President Jacque Shirak of France has recently stated that the French army under his authority will never show any vulnerable behaviour towards those who would threat the French secularity and national security, a threat many believe is been directed to the Iranian hard liners pursuing the Uranium enrichment programs of theirs since last week. Is Shirak gone out of his mind because of the public pressure due to the recent Moslem disputes and disturbances? Or may be he has realized that the French vine yards are going to be the very first target for the premier nuclear missile produced in the Iranian very very Moslem traditionally tattooed Bunkers, as soon as they achieve the huge technology of uranium enrichment without being dependent on western powers, rather to speed up the matter cause the whole administrative body of the Iranian government is sitting on the plans of how to conquer the world and frantically how to destroy France first. That’s sounds very threatening to me, to Monsieur Shirak, must have been far more threatening that he had to pick up his strength and march up the press tribunes and shout at the terrorists and their supporters to watch it of course we ain’t gonna sit back and watch till you guys achieve some nuclear technology, we gonna nuke you down first!! If any of those reasons I respectively pointed to are not the grounds on which Shirak has stated what he stated, then may be biology of human being is the answer and he’s simply getting old and more secular towards the motherland France and tries to project the French legacy of first ever European nation to beak the boundaries of the Islamic Ottoman and imperialise the Arabs some 2 centuries ago. If they did it 200 years ago why can’t they repeat once more? The fact that some other nations which were not in the golden-member only club of Nuclear weapons are catching up with the old members is as yeasty and bitter as Japanese beat Italians in the soccer field nevertheless those new comers are claiming to be Moslems. Hell yeah the stories of the crusades is being narrated chest to chest and heart to heart on both sides of the Jerusalem ever since Saladin took back what the Christians claimed some 100 years before him. To me both ways I hate to live under a government who is acting according to any holy books why the holy books brought the interference of what people wanted to live through with what the lords of other worlds would want it to be, if not getting the creator involved, the priests and Imams who were and still are the true representatives were the true sons of nuts who brought up all of that we are the chosen ones and you not type of arguments which has got no other settle than war. If the power and the natural selection thrives the stronger ones to survive it also suggests the weaker ones to come into coalition with each other and hence become strong. The middle east is a cradle of unrest and prejudice and the west in another fashion too. If Jacque Shirak perceives danger and enjoys admiration of some other European counterparts tipping in their Deutsch Zeitung and/or British guardians the awareness of the Europe towards rise of tyranny and threat to their totality if Iran possesses Nuclear power just like Israel, India and Pakistan or The Grand china in the region, then he should also take into consideration that Iranians too will feel the same threat on their security to avoid any act of peaceful and cognitive approach if France declares a pre-emptive nuclear war on them or on any nations who might get into trouble with the Europe’s Red/Blue cocks.
keep it real
ratsnake
5th Chair
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:01 am
Location: Germany

Re: French Revolution

Postby Haggis@wk » Mon Jan 23, 2006 2:46 pm

COMPLETE MILITARY HISTORY OF FRANCE


Gallic Wars - Lost. In a war whose ending foreshadows the next 2000 years of French history, France is conquered by of all things, an Italian.

Hundred Years War - Mostly lost, saved at last by female schizophrenic who inadvertently creates The First Rule of French Warfare; "France's armies are victorious only when NOT led by a Frenchman."

Italian Wars - Lost. France becomes the first and only country to ever lose two wars -- when fighting Italians.

Wars of Religion - France goes 0-5-4 against the Huguenots.

Thirty Years War - France is technically not a participant, but manages to get invaded anyway. Claims a tie on the basis that eventually the other participants started ignoring her.

War of Devolution - Tied. Frenchmen take to wearing red flower pots as chapeaux.

The Dutch War - Tied.

War of the Augsburg League / King William's War / French and Indian War -Lost, but claimed as a tie. Three ties in a row induces deluded Frogophiles the world over to label the period as the height of French military power.

War of the Spanish Succession - Lost. The War also gave the French their first taste of a Marlborough, which they have loved ever since.

American Revolution - In a move that will become quite familiar to future Americans, France claims a win even though the English colonists saw far more action. This is later known as "de Gaulle Syndrome", and leads to the Second Rule of French Warfare; "France only wins when America does most of the fighting."

French Revolution - Won, primarily due the fact that the opponent was also French.

The Napoleonic Wars - Lost. Temporary victories (remember the First Rule!) due to leadership of a Corsican, who ended up being no match for a British footwear designer.

The Franco-Prussian War - Lost. Germany first plays the role of drunk Frat boy to France's ugly girl home alone on a Saturday night.

World War I - Tied and on the way to losing, France is saved by the United States. Thousands of French women find out what it's like to not only sleep with a winner, but one who doesn't call her "Fraulein." Sadly, widespread use of condoms by American forces forestalls any improvement in the French bloodline.

World War II - Lost. Conquered French liberated by the United States and Britain just as they finish learning the Horst Wessel Song.

War in Indochina - Lost. French forces plead sickness, take to bed with the Dien Bien Flu.

Algerian Rebellion - Lost. Loss marks the first defeat of a western army by a Non-Turkic Muslim force since the Crusades, and produces the First Rule of Muslim Warfare; "We can always beat the French." This rule is identical to the First Rules of the Italians, Russians, Germans, English, Dutch, Spanish, Vietnamese and Esquimaux.

War Against Greenpeace - Lost. 1985, the Greenpeace ship Rainbow Warrior prepares to sail for Moruroa Atoll for a major campaign against French nuclear testing. Agents of the DGSE [secret service] bomb and sink the ship in Auckland Harbor. I tree-hugger sans tree drowns. Six weeks later agents Prieur and Mafart plead guilty to charges of manslaughter and willful damage. They get sentences of 10 years and 7 years. French Prime Minister Fabius admits to state terrorism on TV.

War on Terrorism - France, keeping in mind its recent history, surrenders to Germans and Muslims just to be safe. Attempts to surrender to Vietnamese ambassador fail after he takes refuge in a McDonald's
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
Haggis@wk
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6055
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:01 am
Location: Home office

Re: French Revolution

Postby haggis » Thu Jan 26, 2006 7:04 pm

Chirac, the bomb and terrorism

” What is so surprising is that Mr. Chirac's government has in the past favored an approach of conciliation or even appeasement toward Iran and the Arab nations. He was, after all, the vociferous foe of the U.S.-led war in Iraq and a hard line against Iran. That approach benefited French companies that were able to obtain lucrative contracts in competition with corporations based in the land of the great Satan.

So, what happened? There are two contributing factors. The first is the civil unrest in France several months ago, which involved nightly riots and a myriad of car burnings in many areas of the country. This violence had the same kind of impact upon Mr. Chirac and the French government that September 11 had upon the United States.

In his speech, Mr. Chirac bluntly declared, "In numerous countries, radical ideas are spreading, advocating a confrontation of civilizations." Mr. Chirac now understands the problem. The jihadists are attempting to capture town by town, areas within Western Europe. As one French government official put it, "This is more than a clash of civilizations. It is a cancer within our country that if unchecked will destroy all of France."

With his statements, Mr. Chirac is warning Iran and the Arab countries to desist in supporting and encouraging residents of France who launched last year's attacks and are undoubtedly planning to do far worse. His approach is to cut off terror at the source. This resembles the policy being pursued by the U.S. government, although it is hard to imagine how great the public outcry would be if President Bush threatened to use nuclear weapons.


The last sentence is the money quote
Haggis

A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing
haggis
2nd Chair
 
Posts: 1150
Joined: Fri May 10, 2002 12:01 am
Location: warm, humid, and wonderfully sticky Dallas, Texas!!

Re: French Revolution

Postby ratsnake » Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:26 pm

Well that’s true. that’s exactly what we describe the Jihadistic ideas like: a certain mal function of a part of the society, but do we really know that the certain mal function has its own roots? You might say that inside every illusive picture there’s a reality in a different sense, we can say inside the radical fanatic mentality of the Arab ground shakers there must be some simple rhetoric of pledge and reconsideration, what about? Their hindered societies since mid 1700s, what else? Their scratched face of pride since the colonisation days…. So does it really confirm what they’re doin? Nope….. What do we do about it? Quarantine? Sounds like a logical idea…. But not really applicable, cause more than half a population of the old continent are Moslems, not all of them are planning to wipe every single other ethnicity or Christian in particular off the face of the earth. How do we deal with them? I guess, may be translating their very very religious slogans into more moderate and rational need inquiries of a modern life: they hate Christians in Turkish ghettos in germany cause Germans sometimes could be such an assholes while dealing with a normal Turkish tax payer, they bomb the London stations in Moroccan society of the Britain, cause the police cars might have stopped the arab looking ones way more in vane and false accusations than a normal European looking citizen walking down London streets. We also don’t approve their habits in Iran but the problem is we are a big big part of their conquest some 1000 or 1400 years ago, hence the religion is gone down in our minds as well but the fact that we’ve been conquered by Arabs hasn’t let go yet. There for we always feel happy if one notices that that’s Persian we’re speaking not some closely related branch of the holy Arabic’s language. These are clues I guess, clues due to which we can base our basics of religious-rationality translation. So I’ll be trying to describe my opinion in a different post, you’re all welcome to join it there and tell me whattya think about the reasonable ways of understanding the phenomenon : Jihadistic idealogy
By the way I’ll be more than grateful if you or others would consider the fact that Iranians are NOT 100% the same as all other Arab nations in mentality and not that they’re totally different than their neighbours but that there are significant stances in which one would draw a line of separation between lands nation wise.
keep it real
ratsnake
5th Chair
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:01 am
Location: Germany

Re: French Revolution

Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:42 pm

The local Americans whose grandparents came from Iran say that their language at home is Farsi, and that they're not Arabic at all. Who am I to argue?

ratsnake, we don't confuse practicing Moslems with Islamists or maniacs on a jihad. The first is regular people; the others are violent lunatics.
>^..^<
Selma in Sandy Eggo
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6273
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2002 1:01 am
Location: San Diego

Re: French Revolution

Postby Haggis@wk » Fri Jan 27, 2006 3:38 pm

Iranians are not considered arabic and they speak Farsi (or Persian)
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
Haggis@wk
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6055
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:01 am
Location: Home office

Postby Haggis@wk » Sun Nov 26, 2006 10:58 am

They go by the euphemistic term Zones Urbaines Sensibles, or Sensitive Urban Zones, with the even more antiseptic acronym ZUS, and there are 751 of them as of last count. They are conveniently listed on one long webpage, complete with street demarcations and map delineations.

What are they? Those places in France that the French state does not control. They range from two zones in the medieval town of Carcassone to twelve in the heavily Muslim town of Marseilles, with hardly a town in France lacking in its ZUS. The ZUS came into existence in late 1996 and according to a 2004 estimate, nearly 5 million people live in them.

A more precise name for these zones would be Dar al-Islam, the place where Muslims rule.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
Haggis@wk
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6055
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:01 am
Location: Home office

Postby BigJon » Sun Nov 26, 2006 3:20 pm

Sick!
Even a blind nut finds a squirrel once in a while. – Me! Feb 9, 2001
BigJon
2nd Chair
 
Posts: 1158
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 12:01 am
Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Postby dai bread » Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:27 pm

As a resident of the country where the "Rainbow Warrior" was bombed, I find the idea of French pre-emptive warfare less far-fetched than most of you seem to.

I thought the idea of American pre-emptive warfare was preposterous too, once.
We have no money; we must use our brains. -Ernest Rutherford.
dai bread
1st Chair
 
Posts: 3020
Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Cambridge, New Zealand

Postby analog » Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:09 am

whattya think about the reasonable ways of understanding the phenomenon : Jihadistic idealogy


I think 'Jihadistic ideology' is a a pathology and ought to be treated like rabies.
Cogito ergo doleo.
analog
2nd Chair
 
Posts: 1573
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2003 12:01 am
Location: arkansas ozarks

Postby barfle » Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:44 am

dai bread wrote:I thought the idea of American pre-emptive warfare was preposterous too, once.

It still should be. Hopefully it will be again.
--I know what I like--
barfle
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6144
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2001 1:01 am
Location: Springfield, Vahjinyah, USA

Postby piqaboo » Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:17 pm

Haggis@wk wrote:They go by the euphemistic term Zones Urbaines Sensibles,
What are they? Those places in France that the French state does not control.


They have these in Miami too, but they call them "unincorporated Dade County".
There are small areas of several blocks each where the Miami Dade peace officers and fire departments do not respond*. These are within the greater agglomeration that is the city and its suburbs. Disturbing there, and the French version is even more so.

*
Altoid - curiously strong.
piqaboo
1st Chair
 
Posts: 7135
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:01 am
Location: Paradise (So. Cal.)

Next

Return to The Debate Team

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

cron